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27 September 2010 @ 09:00 pm
 

The Like have joined the debate about female singers such as Lady Gaga 'oversexualising' pop music by accusing the star and other artists as 'dressing like whores.'

Talking to Spinner, lead singer Elizabeth 'Z' Berg says that stars who style themselves as floozies are sending out the wrong messages on female sexuality, no matter how much they protest.

She blasts, "There's a difference between being sexy and feminine and a woman or girl, and dressing like a whore and being a bad influence. They talk about being huge feminists and protecting their right to be a woman and it's like, no, I don't see that's projecting a good message."

The frontwoman of the Los Angeles-based retro indie pop outfit continues, "I've had this problem with modern pop music and the way females are represented for so long.

"It's not like we're prudes, or that we're unsexy in the way we dress or we act, but it's about femininity and not over-sexualisation. We like to dress like girls do, not like whores do."

She claims that it explains part of the reason why she and her bandmates are attracted to the music and styles of the 1960s, as the era saw women become more empowered sexually but in a more innocent way.

Bass player Laena Geronimo adds that their refusal to sexualise their style sets them apart from other girl bands.

She says, "There aren't that many girl bands out there that are just completely unafraid to just be girls, you know, throw on a t-shirt and jeans and play the show.

"I've done that a million times. That's what it's like in this band, we're going dress like this and you're just going to have to deal with it."

Berg concludes that she's fed up of people bringing the Like's gender into the equation.

She rails, "It's so rare for anyone to talk about our music. People are always apt to talk about what we look like, who we've dated, who we're related to, or just the general fact that we're girls instead of talking about what the record sounds like.

"It's frustrating. But every time I play a show, remember why I don't give a f---, that's what makes me happy and makes it all worth it."

source

i have quite a few issues with z's attitude in this article, and i plan on leaving a comment on the like's facebook, but i'm not sure if that will actually make any difference. what are your thoughts on this?
 
 
 
April: brendon urie: so radselphiebooyaka on September 28th, 2010 01:07 am (UTC)
you just can't be a feminist while tearing down another woman for doing what she wants. being a feminist isn't about embracing femininity or being more ~butch or what have you. It's about doing what you want as a woman because you want to, whether it be being conservatively dressed and being a stay at home mom or flaunting your sexuality in public or chasing whatever career you please. If women keep trying to act holier than other women and slut shaming, we're not going to progress anywhere

Z, I am disappoint
Natalieleatherteal on September 28th, 2010 01:11 am (UTC)
iawtc :/
(no subject) - restlessgranola on September 28th, 2010 01:12 am (UTC) (Expand)
(no subject) - selphiebooyaka on September 28th, 2010 01:13 am (UTC) (Expand)
(no subject) - restlessgranola on September 28th, 2010 01:16 am (UTC) (Expand)
(no subject) - 1842 on September 28th, 2010 01:24 am (UTC) (Expand)
(no subject) - selphiebooyaka on September 28th, 2010 01:26 am (UTC) (Expand)
(no subject) - 1842 on September 28th, 2010 01:27 am (UTC) (Expand)
(no subject) - selphiebooyaka on September 28th, 2010 01:27 am (UTC) (Expand)
(no subject) - 1842 on September 28th, 2010 01:30 am (UTC) (Expand)
(no subject) - selphiebooyaka on September 28th, 2010 01:31 am (UTC) (Expand)
(no subject) - roadmarks on September 28th, 2010 01:50 am (UTC) (Expand)
(no subject) - slashxmistress on September 28th, 2010 03:46 pm (UTC) (Expand)
The Girl with Kaleidoscope Eyes: The Chipettes: Chipmunk Adventurerestlessgranola on September 28th, 2010 01:21 am (UTC)
And 1842? Tell us if anything does come of commenting?

that's why his dick's so big, it's full of secrets1842 on September 28th, 2010 01:26 am (UTC)
i posted what i could fit into the 1,000 character facebook limit, you can read it here. i'm not sure anything will come of it in the big picture, but these kinds of things really tick me off, so i had to say something. :/
(no subject) - restlessgranola on September 28th, 2010 01:28 am (UTC) (Expand)
(no subject) - 1842 on September 28th, 2010 01:31 am (UTC) (Expand)
(no subject) - restlessgranola on September 28th, 2010 01:32 am (UTC) (Expand)
(no subject) - 1842 on September 28th, 2010 01:36 am (UTC) (Expand)
(no subject) - restlessgranola on September 28th, 2010 01:39 am (UTC) (Expand)
(no subject) - 1842 on September 28th, 2010 01:41 am (UTC) (Expand)
the other girl: keane; in the parkpetra_boheme on September 28th, 2010 01:40 am (UTC)
I agree with her like 100%
I don't get why so many girls show their whole bodies for anyone in the world to see. It, to me, is so unlady-like and I'm so tired of seeing it.
Kudos to Z for speaking her mind :)
that's why his dick's so big, it's full of secrets1842 on September 28th, 2010 01:43 am (UTC)
you realize z puts and has put her body on display for anyone in the world to see numerous times, and will probably continue to do so despite what she has said here, right? because she does this in a "feminine" way rather than a more straightforward way, does that somehow make it okay...? i'm asking because i fail to see how she's expressed herself appropriately here, and i don't understand how that's okay at all.

Edited at 2010-09-28 01:45 am (UTC)
(no subject) - petra_boheme on September 28th, 2010 10:18 pm (UTC) (Expand)
(no subject) - star_trekked on September 28th, 2010 10:05 pm (UTC) (Expand)
saturday nights & neon lights: that took me by surprise!eastdisease on September 28th, 2010 01:40 am (UTC)
I am super irked/squicked by this. I understand, basically, her standpoint and opinion and WHY, but it's very lopsided or just badly worded with what she's claimed before. I especially don't like the 'better than you' attitude, it just doesn't suit anyone.

(basically, what Alora said)
that's why his dick's so big, it's full of secrets1842 on September 28th, 2010 01:48 am (UTC)
she has that "better than you" attitude about fashion a lot of the time, and now she's treading dangerous territory and trying to mix it in with feminism... and failing really badly ):
(no subject) - lovelymae on September 28th, 2010 02:47 am (UTC) (Expand)
(no subject) - 1842 on September 28th, 2010 02:52 am (UTC) (Expand)
Reese - my cups are delicious.grapefruits on September 28th, 2010 01:52 am (UTC)
Z Berg you used to dress like '94 Rachel from Friends, your argument is invalid.

Edited at 2010-09-28 01:53 am (UTC)
April: aang: the avatarselphiebooyaka on September 28th, 2010 02:00 am (UTC)
lol when I read this, I had every picture of her with her leg up over her head while in a dress flash in my mind.
(no subject) - 1842 on September 28th, 2010 02:01 am (UTC) (Expand)
(no subject) - grapefruits on September 28th, 2010 02:03 am (UTC) (Expand)
(no subject) - selphiebooyaka on September 28th, 2010 02:04 am (UTC) (Expand)
(no subject) - grapefruits on September 28th, 2010 02:07 am (UTC) (Expand)
Cedric Marilyn Monroe Changroadmarks on September 28th, 2010 01:54 am (UTC)
I'm so disappointed by this. :( It's so disheartening to hear women talk about other women like that.
that's why his dick's so big, it's full of secrets1842 on September 28th, 2010 01:56 am (UTC)
i know what you mean. i especially hate that since the band has kind of been incorporated into a fandom with relatively few women, that attitude is even more detrimental, and it sucks enough to think things like that in general! it's incredibly disappointing, and it's really hard for me to not let things like that influence how i feel about a person/band in the big picture.
(no subject) - restlessgranola on September 28th, 2010 02:12 am (UTC) (Expand)
(no subject) - 1842 on September 28th, 2010 02:15 am (UTC) (Expand)
(no subject) - restlessgranola on September 28th, 2010 02:21 am (UTC) (Expand)
lovelymaelovelymae on September 28th, 2010 03:01 am (UTC)
"It's not like we're prudes, or that we're unsexy in the way we dress or we act, but it's about femininity and not over-sexualisation. We like to dress like girls do, not like whores do."

I completely understand what Z is saying with this statement (although it probably could have been said better and it probably was and she was most likely misquoted or they abbreviated what she said. Z has a way with words.)

She understands sexuality, she celebrates it. She says she and the band ARE sexual. But there is sometimes a fine line between celebrating femininity and female sexuality and exploiting it and being a sex object for men (a whore/prostitute). And maybe she thinks that is what the likes of Gaga, Danity Kane, Rihanna, etc... are doing. Not celebrating female sexuality in a way that is conducive to female empowerment and the way women are perceived in the media. And the media is a huge factor in the way females are portrayed and consequently "understood" by society.

I could go on..but I'm watching Taxi Cab Confessions and am loosing my train of thought.

Also, in the credits of Taxi Cab Confessions I saw a prostitute wearing an outfit eerily similar to the likes of Cher and Lady Gaga.
that's why his dick's so big, it's full of secrets1842 on September 28th, 2010 03:16 am (UTC)
whether or not she was misquoted, the word "whore" was still used more than once and that's the most problematic part of this for me, personally, and i think many others too. a whore is not a sex object for men, a whore is, by definition, a prostitute or a person who is paid money in exchange for sexual acts, and generally this does NOT happen because the woman (in most cases, though there are obviously male prostitutes) wants to feel sexy. prostitution is usually forced in situations of extreme poverty or when underlying issues are present, like drug addiction. no matter her message, calling a woman a "whore" because she wears a certain kind of clothing is, without a doubt, detrimental to the celebration of sexuality.

i don't think there's any question that she and the band are sexual, but beyond the offensiveness of her word choice, the statement is basically saying that women who aren't feminine in their sexuality are wrong in being sexual. that doesn't make any sense, and isn't fair, because not all women are feminine. and i agree that there's a fine line between celebrating sexuality and exploiting it, but that line exists for both men and women, regardless of femininity that is or isn't present. MANY people would say that z is on the exploitative side of that line.

i just personally think that she should consider what she's saying before she talks so passionately about something that's as controversial as sexuality and feminism, because the messages she's conveyed today are hardly positive to me.
(no subject) - lovelymae on September 28th, 2010 03:42 am (UTC) (Expand)
(no subject) - 1842 on September 28th, 2010 03:50 am (UTC) (Expand)
(no subject) - lovelymae on September 28th, 2010 04:03 am (UTC) (Expand)
(no subject) - 1842 on September 28th, 2010 04:14 am (UTC) (Expand)
(no subject) - lovelymae on September 28th, 2010 04:19 am (UTC) (Expand)
(no subject) - cantspell on September 28th, 2010 04:16 am (UTC) (Expand)
(no subject) - 1842 on September 28th, 2010 04:27 am (UTC) (Expand)
(no subject) - cantspell on September 28th, 2010 06:04 am (UTC) (Expand)
(no subject) - cantspell on September 28th, 2010 04:12 am (UTC) (Expand)
(no subject) - lovelymae on September 28th, 2010 04:27 am (UTC) (Expand)
(no subject) - 1842 on September 28th, 2010 04:32 am (UTC) (Expand)
(no subject) - lovelymae on September 28th, 2010 04:49 am (UTC) (Expand)
(no subject) - hector_rashbaum on September 28th, 2010 04:50 am (UTC) (Expand)
(no subject) - 1842 on September 28th, 2010 05:13 am (UTC) (Expand)
(no subject) - cantspell on September 28th, 2010 05:40 am (UTC) (Expand)
(no subject) - 1842 on September 28th, 2010 05:47 am (UTC) (Expand)
(no subject) - cantspell on September 28th, 2010 06:02 am (UTC) (Expand)
(no subject) - slashxmistress on September 28th, 2010 04:31 pm (UTC) (Expand)
(no subject) - hector_rashbaum on September 28th, 2010 03:28 am (UTC) (Expand)
(no subject) - lovelymae on September 28th, 2010 03:52 am (UTC) (Expand)
(no subject) - hector_rashbaum on September 28th, 2010 03:57 am (UTC) (Expand)
(no subject) - lovelymae on September 28th, 2010 04:14 am (UTC) (Expand)
(no subject) - hector_rashbaum on September 28th, 2010 04:23 am (UTC) (Expand)
(no subject) - lovelymae on September 28th, 2010 04:37 am (UTC) (Expand)
(no subject) - hector_rashbaum on September 28th, 2010 04:46 am (UTC) (Expand)
(no subject) - 1842 on September 28th, 2010 05:15 am (UTC) (Expand)
(no subject) - hector_rashbaum on September 28th, 2010 05:31 am (UTC) (Expand)
(no subject) - 1842 on September 28th, 2010 05:38 am (UTC) (Expand)
(no subject) - lovelymae on September 28th, 2010 08:44 am (UTC) (Expand)
(no subject) - hector_rashbaum on September 28th, 2010 02:43 pm (UTC) (Expand)
(no subject) - hector_rashbaum on September 28th, 2010 04:41 pm (UTC) (Expand)
(no subject) - hector_rashbaum on September 28th, 2010 04:57 am (UTC) (Expand)
(no subject) - cantspell on September 28th, 2010 05:53 am (UTC) (Expand)
(no subject) - selphiebooyaka on September 28th, 2010 04:09 am (UTC) (Expand)
(Deleted comment)
lovelymaelovelymae on September 28th, 2010 08:49 am (UTC)
I think she meant "whore" as in...an actual whore. A prostitute. Someone who sells their body.
(Deleted comment)
lillymissy746lillymissy746 on September 28th, 2010 06:55 am (UTC)
I totally back this 100%
This is probably the best "write up" of The Like I've ever read. It's Z bluntly saying what they've been saying in politicly correct terms for years.


Z's quote uncensored and put in to built points for extra impact
"It's so rare for anyone to talk about our music. People are always apt to talk about
• what we look like 
• who we've dated
• who we're related to 
• or just the general fact that we're girls instead of talking about what the record sounds like
It's frustrating. But every time I play a show, remember why I don't give a fuck, that's what makes me happy and makes it all worth it."
lillymissy746lillymissy746 on September 28th, 2010 07:12 am (UTC)
Personally, I don't think she's using the word "whore" as an insult, I think she literally means whore (http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/whore)
that's why his dick's so big, it's full of secrets1842 on September 28th, 2010 07:16 am (UTC)
that's been discussed pretty extensively in the comments, and the idea seems to be that no matter her intention with the word whore, it's still problematic because she's projecting her own idea of what kind of sexuality is "right" onto everyone else, which isn't fair
(no subject) - lovelymae on September 28th, 2010 08:56 am (UTC) (Expand)
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(no subject) - lillymissy746 on September 28th, 2010 08:56 pm (UTC) (Expand)
(no subject) - 1842 on September 29th, 2010 04:46 am (UTC) (Expand)
Jinxed Things: Cheesecakehesmagicandmyth on September 28th, 2010 08:18 am (UTC)

I think some people are getting way too bent out of shape over this. However…

Maybe she should have chosen her words more carefully, but I don't see her coming off as sexist or as "better" than anyone. Keep in mind that she is perfectly allowed to speak her opinion. Interviews are there for opinions.


What Z says is that what these artists are selling is not really their music, but their bodies. You can’t seriously think Lady Gaga put half as much thought into her music here as she did her outfit.
Come on. Get real.
Image and video hosting by TinyPic

Z says, "There's a difference between being sexy and feminine and a woman or girl, and dressing like a whore and being a bad influence. They talk about being huge feminists and protecting their right to be a woman and it's like, no, I don't see that's projecting a good message."

She says that these women use femininity as an excuse to dress this way. However, dressing this way really only sends the wrong messages to people. It labels women with a “cheap” stamp and yes, a “whore” stamp because they are selling themselves. As long as girls dress that way, it gives men the impression that we are here as sexual “playthings” or to be used sexually. That’s not sexual freedom; that’s setting women back. If young girls who look up to these women dress the way that they do, people are going to get the wrong message. It is not going to empower young girls to be strong feminine people; it’s just going to empower them to dress to get attention. Again, I’m seeing the “whore” word being used rather appropriately.

She is just saying that you can be a strong girl and strongly sexual even without putting your entire body on display. People take you a lot less seriously when you start taking your clothes off for attention. (That’s what “whores do.”)

I don’t see her saying that more “butch” personalities/looks are bad either (as I‘ve seen suggested in other comments). In fact, she never touches on them. She is purely talking about people hiding behind a “feminine power” tag in order to show off their bodies. How many “butch” people do this anyway? That opinion’s out of context.
Jinxed Things: Cheesecakehesmagicandmyth on September 28th, 2010 08:20 am (UTC)
PS: The day that The Like start dressing like the majority of pop women is the day I stop listening to them. They'll lose my respect entirely because that will be the day that they obviously don't care about the music anymore anyways.
(no subject) - lovelymae on September 28th, 2010 08:48 am (UTC) (Expand)
(no subject) - hesmagicandmyth on September 29th, 2010 12:20 am (UTC) (Expand)
(no subject) - hector_rashbaum on September 28th, 2010 02:49 pm (UTC) (Expand)
(no subject) - hesmagicandmyth on September 28th, 2010 10:40 pm (UTC) (Expand)
(no subject) - slashxmistress on September 29th, 2010 01:18 am (UTC) (Expand)
(no subject) - hector_rashbaum on September 29th, 2010 02:04 am (UTC) (Expand)
(no subject) - slashxmistress on September 28th, 2010 04:54 pm (UTC) (Expand)
(no subject) - eastdisease on September 28th, 2010 07:44 pm (UTC) (Expand)
(no subject) - hesmagicandmyth on September 29th, 2010 12:15 am (UTC) (Expand)
(no subject) - slashxmistress on September 29th, 2010 12:59 am (UTC) (Expand)
(no subject) - hesmagicandmyth on September 30th, 2010 04:44 am (UTC) (Expand)
(no subject) - hector_rashbaum on September 29th, 2010 02:07 am (UTC) (Expand)
(no subject) - hesmagicandmyth on September 30th, 2010 02:35 am (UTC) (Expand)
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(no subject) - aeslis on September 30th, 2010 12:38 am (UTC) (Expand)
(no subject) - hesmagicandmyth on September 30th, 2010 05:55 am (UTC) (Expand)
(no subject) - 1842 on September 29th, 2010 05:13 am (UTC) (Expand)
(no subject) - hesmagicandmyth on September 30th, 2010 03:45 am (UTC) (Expand)
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RESPECTAWIGGLE MUDDIGGLEelfiepike on September 28th, 2010 05:06 pm (UTC)
lolololol YES. the like would be way to mid-nineties sleater-kinney if they did that, oh noes!!
(no subject) - tanisafan on September 28th, 2010 09:00 pm (UTC) (Expand)
(no subject) - lillymissy746 on September 28th, 2010 11:52 pm (UTC) (Expand)
RESPECTAWIGGLE MUDDIGGLEelfiepike on September 28th, 2010 05:14 pm (UTC)
i'm so glad that it doesn't look like lady gaga is actually mentioned in the article itself.
z berg :< what. what!!

it's not like i expect her to have some advanced idea of women and feminism and representation or something--to be honest, the worship of the sixties generally inclines me to think that she wouldn't--but it's always disappointing when an artist that i like says shit that is not down.

She says, "There aren't that many girl bands out there that are just completely unafraid to just be girls, you know, throw on a t-shirt and jeans and play the show.

"I've done that a million times. That's what it's like in this band, we're going dress like this and you're just going to have to deal with it."


lol, what? disregarding that this...seems to be blatantly untrue at the moment, what about all of the bands with women who do this regularly? oh, wait--they probably don't get mainstream press because they aren't pretty and popular and "girly" so you probably haven't heard of them. oh z berg. let's just qualify this whole incident as a fail and hope that next time you fail a little less.

as an aside, i think it's worth noting that the like are often asked about their appearance because they made this incredibly conscious decision to look the way they do. other bands that do the same thing are always talked about that way, regardless of the gender of the performers: panic! at the disco, for one.
Tannitanisafan on September 28th, 2010 09:14 pm (UTC)
(I'm glad you got to posting this before I did, I think the notifs would have killed my phone.)

I think everything I really wanted to say, you've already said. I'm really disappointed in how she apparently has such a misguided idea about what 'feminism' means. Calling girls whores for expressing themselves through their dress sense? Is as anti-feminist as you can get. Moreover, it's what they constantly claim they do.

I honestly don't for a second buy that Z believes what she's saying here. Goodness knows she relishes in wearing teeny dresses and answering questions about fashion. She of all people should know that the way artists like Lady Gaga dress, has a LOT to do with the show/stage aspect. When Lady Gaga makes a public stand about equality, about DADT, she doesn't use her sexuality, because it's not relevant at that time.

Ugh I wish I could be more coherent about this.
lillymissy746lillymissy746 on September 28th, 2010 11:48 pm (UTC)
Z never mentioned Lady Gaga, I don't know why she was used as the example. When she's out living her live she's usually drowning in fabric. (Sure, over the summer she stripped down but that's what everyone does in the summer and of course Lady Gaga is going to take it to another level/somewhere totally different.)

The Like are a lot like Lady Gaga, they've established a look to go along with their music, their art.

I don't really follow the top 40 so I can't give great examples but I think she's referring to people more like Katy Perry (for the record I'm not accusing her of anything) who stick it all out there and leave nothing to the imagination.

I think Z's height is at least part of the reason why her dresses are so "teeny". Shorter people have less leg space between the bottom of their butt and their knees, a perfect mid thigh length is almost impossible (I know this first hand).
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(no subject) - lillymissy746 on September 29th, 2010 05:23 am (UTC) (Expand)
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(no subject) - 1842 on September 29th, 2010 04:59 am (UTC) (Expand)
(no subject) - lillymissy746 on September 29th, 2010 05:39 am (UTC) (Expand)
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Annefragilebacks on October 2nd, 2010 04:38 am (UTC)
Reading this was very disappointing. How can someone advocate for feminism when she is talking down on other women for "sexualising" themselves? Are women not allowed to present themselves in any way they see fit without being accused of not "projecting a good image"?

All I want to say and all I could possibly say has already been eloquently stated (much more eloquently than I could ever manage!), so really I have nothing new to contribute to this matter. All I hope is that maybe the Like can become aware of this post and see exactly what many of us have interpreted from this article/interview. The whole "holier than thou" feel this article has going on shouldn't go by unrecognized.